the GENESIS story...

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Rarely are bands as prolific or good as when they start out. There's usually not a clear demarcation as to when bands decline, but it's inevitable.

I suggest that you may find that Genesis may have travelled the same road with Hackett on board.

"Your Own Special Way" is a beautiful tune. But it's certainly pop.

I'm not suggesting to see Genesis now. Personally iIwould not (arena setting, spoiled on good venues, price, etc). But I like some of the post-Duke material. If you don't like "Fading Lights" from "We Can't Dance", you have really just haven't given it a chance. It stands up to most of their great early material.

And why does Gabriel get a free pass for "Sledgehammer"? Again personally I like the song. but it was as popular, overplayed, and trite as most of later Genesis.

Remember, I'm someone whose favorite Genesis record is Selling England, song is Musical Box, etc. i have no special interest in or affinity for post-Hackett Genesis. But take each record on its own merits.

Yes can put out some less than stellar material. they don't seem to get the same treatment.

I think one big difference is in the trend. Yes has rebounded from their worst albums with some fairly good material. Peter Gabriel is stylistically all over the place, and his most recent album has very good stuff on it. But early Genesis (IMO) was some of the best prog ever. Later Genesis is consistently weak. And, the trend which started on Wind & Wuthering (one poppy but nice track) continued to get worse, until later albums are virtually unlistenable to prog fans.
The other big factor is the "depths of their disgrace" - Genesis's lows are lower than Yes's, and even lower than that ELP abomination "Pirates" (joking, but couldn't resist) - "Illegal Alien"? "We Can't Dance"? Please - those aren't even good POP songs.

[RogorMortis]

I'm not suggesting to see Genesis now. Personally iIwould not (arena setting, spoiled on good venues, price, etc). But I like some of the post-Duke material. If you don't like "Fading Lights" from "We Can't Dance", you have really just haven't given it a chance. It stands up to most of their great early material.

For once in my life I support Rick to the hilt. "We can't Dance" is a much better album than all the preceding after Duke. Jim is right that Genesis have made cheap pop songs but at the time there was not that much else to be had (pre internet times) so we lapped it up. But like all good things come to an end Genesis petered out after Wind and Wuthering.

I have, though, bought a ticket to see this bunch of old men. I've only seen Genesis once before and that was the same bunch. Old Genesis I've missed up here in the desert, when I was just a poor student. So I have to make do with what we can get. In that sense, you others who only would see the re-united Genesis, are going to miss something. The old Genesis will not unite in my opinion.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by progdirjim

I think one big difference is in the trend. Yes has rebounded from their worst albums with some fairly good material. Peter Gabriel is stylistically all over the place, and his most recent album has very good stuff on it. But early Genesis (IMO) was some of the best prog ever. Later Genesis is consistently weak. And, the trend which started on Wind & Wuthering (one poppy but nice track) continued to get worse, until later albums are virtually unlistenable to prog fans.
The other big factor is the "depths of their disgrace" - Genesis's lows are lower than Yes's, and even lower than that ELP abomination "Pirates" (joking, but couldn't resist) - "Illegal Alien"? "We Can't Dance"? Please - those aren't even good POP songs.

I can go for this reasoning. That puts it in a good perspective. The only thing I'd point out is that "Open Your Eyes" is worse than any of it and "Love Will Find A Way" from Big Generator is really low.

I'm surprised about opinions of Duke. Except for the one really crappy song (we all know what that is), it's a good record. Heathaze, CuldeSac? Good stuff.

Rogor - we agree on a lot....you're not fooling anybody.