New Website

[XincLloyd]

This is really a response for Avian's comments in quotes.
"Wow - that is a really, really old computer. From the 90s. And that is a pretty old browser - April of 2005. I'm surprised it even works on your computer, really."

Age is relative to perspective. Ask a 10 year old and a 50 year old person "What is old?" and you're are likely to get vastly different answers. Ask a computer manufacturer and a computer purchaser "what is old?" and you'll get similarly different answers. The latter is directly tied to cash flow. A computer is just a tool. Do you throw away a screwdriver simply because it is ten (or 120) years old? If it still works on 90% of the screws encountered, where is the incentive to replace with recently manufactured model.
I do plan on a new computer in the next couple years. Perhaps I'll remember to revisit the AM site when that occurs. It is difficult to believe, however, that in the entire world I am using the oldest computer attempting access to the AM site. I expect I am simply a more vocal representative of many. Where others simply moved on to other web sites rather than inform of any difficulties. Maybe not?

"Do the flash videos freak out your computer as well? It looks like your setup may not support Flash widgets. What version of Flash are you using? Be sure it's the latest version. It shouldn't even load until you scroll down to see it."

No, flash dosn't work well with my computer. MPEGs work just fine, though. But, I don't normally use my computer to view videos, either. I gather from discussion that that's the new "killer Ap" that's being used to sell new computers. ???

"I am reluctant to keep the site from moving forward with all the great features modern browsers provide, including some flash tools, like widgets and video. There's a point where you just can't keep supporting really old computers. Your computer is coming up on its 10th anniversary, and for a computer, that's essentially like 120 years old."

??? Are you implying that anything 120 years old (or computer over 10) should be routinely discarded? I don't think I want to go there, philosophically. (Throw away society and only new things have value.)

Anyway, that's certainly your option to restrict access to the web site for only those users who have purchased the lastest Hardware and software. However, if you restrict access to your domain or business to only those 5 ft tall or less, you can expect fewer visitors or patrons than is in the general populace. I don't understand why you seemingly want to restrict your audience and limit growth potential, though.

"You certainly don't have to pay thousands to upgrade your system - really. You should be able to get a reasonable machine for much, much less."

For the hardware alone, I agree. But, 10 or more titles of software and/or upgrades are far more expensive than the hardware. There is also the peripherals to consider; printer, scanner, hard drives etc. The separate issue of asking someone else to spend money or savings dollars so that someone else can enjoy the latest technology, could be an interesting side discussion.

Forced obsolesence is an easier pill to distribute than to swallow.

Finally, I must ask the question. (Probably out of ignorance) If the new technology and web site upgrades are such an improvement over the "old", why is it exclusionary? New computers are faster and new software more capable, right. Why aren't they smart enough to accomodate legacy equipment?

Best of luck with whatever you decide! I'll revisit AM in the future as I really do enjoy the music played there. However, it probably won't be your website that directs me to Amazon.com for CD purchases, sadly. I've purchased 30 CDs in the last month directly from exposure through listening to AM.

Best Regards,

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by XincLloyd

A computer is just a tool. Do you throw away a screwdriver simply because it is ten (or 120) years old? If it still works on 90% of the screws encountered, where is the incentive to replace with recently manufactured model.

Bravo! A great statement.

Anyway, Can you really not access Aural Moon with the computer you have?

[Avian(Admin)]

Originally Posted by XincLloyd

Ask a computer manufacturer and a computer purchaser "what is old?" and you'll get similarly different answers.

A computer is just a tool. Do you throw away a screwdriver simply because it is ten (or 120) years old? If it still works on 90% of the screws encountered, where is the incentive to replace with recently manufactured model.

But if the screwdriver doesn't work on 60% of the screws made today, then you might want to consider buying a new screwdriver. This is much more the case with your computer. For instance, Flash is a fairly ubiquitous tool on the web today. You admitted that your setup does not work well with Flash. If most people are using The New Screw to hold a few things together, and for whatever reason you can't get a new screwdriver, I would think that complaining that The New Screw is being used is not realistic.

I do plan on a new computer in the next couple years. Perhaps I'll remember to revisit the AM site when that occurs. It is difficult to believe, however, that in the entire world I am using the oldest computer attempting access to the AM site.

Of course not. And I'm sure we can make very simple changes where they are appropriate to accommodate people who are having trouble with this or that. And we've chosen not to implement many, many features because of backward compatibility. Not just with the website, but with music and streaming options as well. We have gone out of our way to make sure as many people have a good webgoing and streaming experience.

I expect I am simply a more vocal representative of many. Where others simply moved on to other web sites rather than inform of any difficulties. Maybe not?

This is speculative, and certainly not based on anything in reality. We use very run of the mill web products that are in active development. These products are also constantly being updated to combat new security threats. IN fact, I updated everything today for this very reason. Compatibility is maintained at a very high level, but is always a balancing act between moving forward with features requested by many users on the web site, and keep it backward compatible for as many people as possible.

"Do the flash videos freak out your computer as well? It looks like your setup may not support Flash widgets. What version of Flash are you using? Be sure it's the latest version. It shouldn't even load until you scroll down to see it."

No, flash doesnt work well with my computer. MPEGs work just fine, though. But, I don't normally use my computer to view videos, either. I gather from discussion that that's the new "killer Ap" that's being used to sell new computers. ???

Flash has been around since 1996. Certainly not anything new. And it doesn't just play videos, it's used for animation and other functions, like our chat room. I'm sorry your setup is having trouble with Flash. Maybe together, we can get it to work. But while I don't want to build a Flash-heavy website for compatibility reasons, I don't think it's unreasonable to use it here and there for features that Aural Moon listeners have been requesting. Again, the balance.

??? Are you implying that anything 120 years old (or computer over 10) should be routinely discarded? I don't think I want to go there, philosophically. (Throw away society and only new things have value.)

Of course I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that is that your expectation that you'll be able to use your computer on the world wide web with 100% compatibility of features indefinitely is unrealistic. That is simply the nature of technology.

Anyway, that's certainly your option to restrict access to the web site for only those users who have purchased the latest Hardware and software.

Well, this is not what's happening. You've taken your particular situation, and your problem with one particular very minor feature, and blown it out of proportion by saying that we're restricting access to the site. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Finally, I must ask the question. (Probably out of ignorance) If the new technology and web site upgrades are such an improvement over the "old", why is it exclusionary? New computers are faster and new software more capable, right. Why aren't they smart enough to accommodate legacy equipment?

They are smart, and for the massive collection of them, they do support legacy equipment. But surely you wouldn't restrict them from adding new features that the new technology allows them to do. For instance, your home computer, probably built in 1997, can play videos. But home computers that are 9 years older than it (Apple IIx), built in 1988, cannot do that. Is it fair to say that Apple never should have made your computer have the ability to play videos, or display more than 256 colors?

The same is true for the web. New software and hardware technologies make new features never before available. While compatibility is taken into account to a great extent (really, a tremendous effort goes into it), the backwards reach is not unlimited.

And all this is assuming that this is the reason Flash does not work with your setup. It could be that there's something specific about your particular system that is interfering with Flash, and that it's capable of running it just fine.

I'll keep putting maximum effort into keeping this site compatible with legacy setups. I would suggest that you may want to do some troubleshooting on your end to see if there's any way to make your setup more compatible as well.

I hope you'll continue to enjoy the free commercial-free music and web services!

Avian