Marillion

[Rick and Roll]

I'm not a big marillion post Fish fan at all..but the only time I saw them was on the seasons End tour.

But I did want to welcome you in...where in Ohio?

[rick_wakeman]

Welcome bro, I'm from France. there are 2 kind of marillion fans : Hogarth's and Fish's. I like both, but speaking of Fish era, i prefer the Script's Fish-with album. It is also said there are two kind of Hogarth's Marillion fans : Season's end 's and Brave's : i must say i prefer Brave sounding albums...

... And i dislike Fish albums after he "gentleman" excused.

[PFD]

Plenty of Marillion fans here. I've been a fan since I first heard Script in 1983. Like both the F era and H era as well as Fish's solo stuff. Going to be heading out to Haddington later this summer to watch Fish in Scotland

[VAXman(Admin)]

I was introduced to Marillion in the early '80s when I was visiting a record shop in Red Bank proNJ -- Jack's Records. I wearing a Genesis shirt and the proprietor said I should check out Marillion if I liked Genesis.

Early Marillion didn't sound too much like Genesis to me. It was pretty crude and the early Fish lyrics reminded me of a critique I got from my creative writing professor -- LOSE THE THESAURUS.

Fish honed his lyrical talents as Misplaced Childhood and Clutching at Straws made their appearance. Still a few too many alliterations and thesaurus gilded verses but not as blatant as before. However, by this time, Fish's habits had caused too much friction in the band and they parted ways.

Along came Steve Hogarth. The band themselves asked him to join. I don't know why he's treated like the Yoko Ono of Marillion. Fish left; H didn't toss him out. At least he's not like Phil Collins,who sold out and he was "promoted" from within.

The early albums should not be any indication of later efforts. H was trying to find his way in a band that had been fronted by a rather well received former frontman. However, if you have some of the old demoes (I do), songs like "Berlin" are much better with H and his lyrics than the original lyrics penned by Fish. There's still plenty of great stuff on the first 2 albums... Brave was the real defining moment though.

H is a much more emotional man. He can sing joy, sadness, pain and sorrow in a lyric that Fish could never do; hell, Fish was lucky to hit a note on any good try. He also has taken inspiration from many facets of life -- his and others, unlike Fish. He draws from personal experiences like his autobiographical "This Strange Engine" -- an ode to his Father, as well as from the lives and life stories of others, perhaps not well know, but interesting people -- Jake LaMotta(Gaspacho), Donald Campbell(Out of This World) and -- a favorite of many from Marbles(Ocean CLoud) -- Don Allum.

If you're a heavy metal head, you won't like H's singing and lyrics but the band has progressed and tried many things that would have never happened with Fish at the helm. H's lyrics are much more personal and emotional -- for example, "House" about his home life -- and somber than Fish. There's a lyric in "This is the 21st Century" that sums him up.

FWIW, I have a very good rapport with Marillion (there are a few here that know this). I can tell you all are much happier with H at the helm than with Fish. There are a few other things I'm not at liberty to disclose in a public forum but if you ask me privately...well...

Also, and the purists will dis them for this, they are a working band. Unlike a great many of the artists here who have day jobs outside of the band, Marillion are musicians and make their living only from the music. The UK music scene is different and strange. Marillion put a poppier number or two on their releases to get the radio airplay needed to try to get sales. Remember, it is not 1972 when free-format radio introduced us all to the great music we are all here to hear. Marillion are paying their way to their retirement years on their musical output.

BTW, if you haven't seen Marillion live, you really ought to. There aren't many bands that can perform and reach out to the audience like they do.

Respectfully, VAX -- who has seen Marillion so many times there aren't enough fingers and toes and other body appendages on which to count them all.

[Rick and Roll]

I'm glad you posted that vax, it gives good perspective on why you feel the way you do about Marillion - and hopefully Coyote and others can join you in seeing them in the future.

I am not a Hogath hater. However, I don't like much after Seasons End. It's not the vocals..it's the music. Emotion only goes so far...you need vibrancy in the music. I don't feel it. The first time I noticed this was seeing "Univited Guest" performed live, then hearing it on the record. What a difference! So flaccid on CD, but excellent live.

There's only a handful of songs after that that come to mind as vibrant. "Dry Land" is a beautiful song. Reminds me of a Marty Balin song, almost commercial. Rothery's stunning guitar makes it for me. But these moments are too few. It's the band that disappoints me. I honestly think they've gotten lazy.

Brave sealed it - I just can't get into it. It's not a metal thing. Sure I like heavy, but I also listen to stuff that makes Brave sound like Anthrax. Nothing to do with heavy. Funny, the LACK of musical emotion is my beef.

All that said, I'd like to sample Marbles. I'll always give things a shot. But this Fish vs. SH thing is silly. it's just the natural evolution of bands. I don't care if Englebert Humperdick (sp error intentional) sung on Misplaced, Clutching, or Fugazi), it would still rock my world. The music on Fugazi still tingles the spine.

Look at any other band, no matter the personnel changes, they just wear out. I'm not a prog purist or snob (except for Queen and Paul Rodgers lol), so let SH be....

And I still feel that Phil Collins is not the anti-christ (I like the Yoko Ono reference vax, very apt). look at Calling All Stations. Ray Wilson on vocals, but the album is crappy because of Banks and Rutherford. It's embarassingly pedestrian. the music of the song "Abacab" is simplistic...that's not Phil's fault. After all didn't Mike have the Mechanics? Yuck!

There are some high points in later Genesis, but much less frequent. That's just the way it is.

So that's why I'm not interested in Marillion anymore.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

I am not a Hogath hater. However, I don't like much after Seasons End. It's not the vocals..it's the music. Emotion only goes so far...you need vibrancy in the music.

Emotion!? There's more emotion in Brave and Afraid of Sunlight than enything Fish ever did with them.

[mailotron]

don't want to polemize ( ?) cos' I'm not good enough in english to do so but there is a lot of emotion in songs like Chelsea monday, white russian or warm wet circles to name but a few. Just for the record, I like Marillion-H a lot and never tried to compare two so different characters . To see/hear them live is always a pleasure.

[CozyToo]

Debating taste is kinda pointless but we sooo like to do it don't we?

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

It's not the vocals..it's the music.

Sums it up for me. Hogarth vocals > Fish vocals tbh but latter has a) Scottish accent and b) is more down to Earth precisely because of all the notes he manages to miss.

Although I agree with "LOSE THE THESAURUS" to an extend, it's still rock and Fish lyrics captured its spirit better imho.

At the end of a day both is good music to listen to and since it covers wider range of listener's mood we're better off this way.

So what's next, Barrett/Waters/Gilmour Floyds or have you guys covered that already?

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by CozyToo

Debating taste is kinda pointless but we sooo like to do it don't we?

So what's next, Barrett/Waters/Gilmour Floyds or have you guys covered that already?

Believe it or not I don't care much for debate on music. Sharing opinions, yes, debate, nah.

Don't know about the Floyd. Like them fine but not going there. But it would be a ligtning rod I'm sure!